Cap. XI: Augustine vs Julian; Martyr and the Enchiridion on consequent guilt
Meanwhile Garissoles casually praises a passage from Augustine's unfinished work against Julian's second reply (Paris, in the seventeenth year of this century) — a passage which, he says, even alone would show what Augustine and the Catholic Church thought about this imputation. Let us look at it: if Augustine is consistent, he is wholly ours. What then is this cry — that God cannot both forgive adults their own sins and impute another's to little ones? (The word propter also looks deletable there as useless and awkward, and the sentence has some other fault. Julian was not saying God cannot forgive adults their own sins; he was saying it does not become the God who forgives adults their own to impute another's to little ones.) Nor will you face this: only those reborn in Christ have both forgiven; those not reborn in Christ have neither. The Christian sacraments of grace are hidden from the wise and prudent and revealed to little ones. If you were among them, and did not think yourself great in your own virtue, you would see that the first man's injustice is imputed to little ones as generated, for undergoing punishment, just as the second man's justice is imputed to little ones as regenerated, for obtaining the kingdom of heaven. That place does not hurt us. Augustine means an imputation that follows generation — and so inborn corruption — whereas the imputation we deny is supposed to precede generation as it does corruption, as if it were the cause of our being born corrupt. Nothing stops us taking 'the first man's injustice' as habitual injustice transmitted to little ones by generation. When the Pelagians asked Augustine how God, who in His goodness remits our own sins, could will to impute another's, he answered (Martyr witnesses) that God is supremely good and does not, as they assume, impute another's sin to us in the guilt of origin, but our own iniquity, which already clings to our nature from the origin itself. Martyr adds another witness: in the Enchiridion to Laurentius, chapter 46, Augustine says it is probable that even the nearest parents' sins are shared with the children. To prove it he sets together two Scriptures we already treated: God will pursue the fathers' sins on the children to the third and fourth generation, yet elsewhere the son shall not bear the father's iniquity. If the son does not bear the father's iniquity but his own, and yet God pursues the father's sin in him, the son must have that sin in himself — otherwise the places would not agree. Would Augustine have said that if he had believed an antecedent or immediate imputation of the father's sin, by which a son would be sinner and guilty who otherwise would be neither?
Latin
Interim quia obiter laudat ex Augustini opere imperfecto contra secundam Juliani responsionem Lutetiae edito anno hujus saeculi decimo septimo, locum, Qui, inquit, vel solus, si alius non extaret apud Augustinum, satis docet quid de hac imputatione & ipse & Ecclesia Catholica senserit, eum locum inspiciamus: Augustinus enim, si sibi constat, totus noster est. Quid est ergo quod clamas & dicis non posse Deum & dimittere peccata majoribus propter propria, & imputare parvulis aliena. (Videtur & delenda vox propter inutilis eo loco & incommoda, & sententia alio quodam mendo laborare. Non dicebat enim Julianus Deum non posse majoribus, hoc est, adultis propria dimittere peccata; sed dicebat non decere Deum, qui dimittit peccata majoribus propria, imputare parvulis aliena.) Nec vis attendere quod nonnisi in Christo renatis, utraque; non renatis autem in Christo neutra dimittantur. Ipsa sunt enim Christiana & gratiae sacramenta abscondita sapientibus & prudentibus & revelata parvulis. In quibus, o si esses, nec quasi magnus in tua virtute consideres, profecto intelligeres, sic imputari generatis parvulis injustitiam primi hominis ad subeundum supplicium, quemadmodum imputatur parvulis regeneratis justitia secundi hominis ad obtinendum regnum coelorum. Nobis hic locus minime nocet. Imputationem enim intelligit, quae generationem, atque adeo ingenitam corruptionem sequitur; cum imputatio, quam negamus, ut corruptionem sic generationem antecedere putetur; causa enim creditur esse, cur gignamur corrupti. Adde quod nihil prohibet per injustitiam primi hominis, injustitiam intelligere habitualem, quam ad parvulos primus homo per generationem transmisit. Certe enim cum Augustino objiceretur a Pelagianis, Qui fieri possit, ut Deus, qui pro sua bonitate nostra ipsorum peccata remittit, velit imputare aliena? Respondit, teste Martyre, Deum summe bonum esse, neque, quod isti assumunt, in culpa originis imputare nobis alienum peccatum, sed nostram ipsorum iniquitatem, quae nostrae naturae adhaeret jam inde ab ipsa origine. Addam aliud ejusdem Martyris de Augustino testimonium. Augustinus, inquit, in Enchiridio ad Laurentium capite 46. probabile ait esse, peccata etiam proximorum parentum communicari cum filiis. Ad quod probandum componit inter se duo loca Scripturarum a nobis ante tractata: Quod Deus ait, se velle persequi peccata patrum in filios in tertiam, & quartam generationem: quum alio loco dicat, Filium non portaturum iniquitatem patris. Si filius, inquit, non portat iniquitatem patris, sed suam, & tamen Deus persequitur in eo peccatum patris, oportet, ut filius ipse peccatum illud in se habeat: Alioqui haec loca inter se non convenirent. Num haec dixisset Augustinus, si peccati paterni imputationem antecedentem seu immediatam credidisset, qua scilicet filius sit peccator & reus, alioqui non peccator, nec reus?
About this text
Josue de la Place (Placeus) — Capita I–XIV partial of De imputatione primi peccati Adami from the 1661 Saumur Latin, through Man. Post. Caput X (GAR.1–3 Rom. 5.13 tip) / before PLAC on reatus-only. Honest partial; Cap. X Rom. 5:14+ / ~494 pp Disputatio remain.
English follows the locked 1661 Saumur Latin of Capita I–XIV partial through Man. Post. Caput IX (eph-ho / eph-ho pantes) before eph-ho / eph-ho pantes, reconstructed from IA PDF page images with Vision OCR and pdftotext as check. No modern English was copied. Cap. IX deepen+ remain.
Catalogue & scope
IA deimputationepri00lapl. Densify: Capita I–XII + Caput XIV + Man. Post. Cap. II–VI through Cap. X Rom. 5:14 tip. Not whole Disputatio; Cap. X Rom. 5:14+ / ~494 pp Disputatio remain.
Witnesses
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput Primum tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Checked print IA Text PDF tip-page extract of Caput Primum (Latin)
- Checked print IA DjVu OCR of the 1661 volume (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput II probable arguments I–VII (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput III necessary arguments (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IV tip through Garissoles distinction (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IV remainder through Drelincourt (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput V Distributio + Caput VI tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VI remainder Maresius args I–VIII (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII tip Garissoles through Rivetus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII rest after Rivetus tip through Garissoles consequent confession (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII §.6 causes-argument through Sed pergamus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Denique / σκοπῷ–verbis tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Accedamus ἐφ᾽ ᾧ / aorist / lexicography tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Ad alias rationes Prima–Tertia tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Praeter aberrationem through Christ–Adam close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Quarta ratio through Sed pergamus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VII Quinta & ultima ratio through p.70 return (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII opening through Rom. 5:15 gift reductio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII Calvin p.20 through hereditary-corruption close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII Ex vs.16 through Chamier disertius close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII IV Ex vs.17 through V Ex vs.18 Pelagius dilemma close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput VIII VI Ex vs.19 through Chamier/Martyr close before Caput IX (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IX opening through roses reductio before Responsio secunda (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput IX Responsio 2 through Melchizedek close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput X opening through Garissoles first ratio before alteram (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput X Theologorum auxilium through Bellarmine retorsion before Christi justitia (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput X Superest ultima through Placeus reply before Caput XI (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XI Pelagian/Socinian/Remonstrant alienation before Caput XII (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XII Daubuz antecedent/immediate open before v.19 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XII Tranfit vers. XIX Rom 5:19 / Chamier / Blancus before Cap. XIV (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Caput XIV Nullam extare / Manuscriptum posterius Cap. I before Cap. II (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II §XIV Garissoles primi peccati naming / Placeus bile reply before duplex question (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II Status Questionis before §III (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II §III Garissoles fourfold / actualis (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II duplex Immediata/Mediata before §XIX (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II §XIX Tum in nomine before Deinde habitus (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II GAR Deinde habitus before Posterior quaestio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. II Posterior quaestio de poena before Cap. III (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. III Observata quaedam before Cap. IV (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV Rursus observata through Prima ratio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Cameron–Amyraut vita promissa (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Cameron–Amyraut vita promissa (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV Tertia GAR three rationes (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV Noli/Quarta/Quinta (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR 2 Quinta / Sexta tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Ultimo / PLAC / GAR 2-4 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IV GAR Denique / Vir Doctus threefold tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Caput V quid sit imputari tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Caput VI Examen Cap. IV tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR 4 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Isaiah 55 / Subjungis tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Chamier tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Placeus replies tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI foedus-condition tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR erotema 4 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR erotema 5 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI GAR erotema 6 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI infants/Confessio/Pighius tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI generative-faculty quarrel tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI last-end / pleasure-vs-generation tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI original-stain syllogism tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI poena/permission/natural-propagation tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI judgment-locution tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VI Calvin Tertio tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII first courtier similitude tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII separability/judicial tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII penalties/meritorie tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII sons/Deut 24 tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII magist/power-vs-justice tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII second similitude Thomas/body tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII GAR Augustine/representation tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII 3rd similitude King/war tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII God-as-judge/Abraham tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII GAR Ezek 21 / just-with-unjust (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VII Quarto/Quinto close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII OT tree interdict open (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII Hypognosticon / interdict silence (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII sentence / common-penalty (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII personal words / quia paruisti (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII Gospel promise / seed of woman (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII death-reply / Ps 32 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. VIII Abraham / OT close (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX Rom 5:12 open (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX four proofs (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX name-distinctions (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX GAR/Beza (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX GAR Cap. VII § IX (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX GAR Cap. VIII Resp. 1 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX PLAC vs GAR 3 (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX imputatum-est reductio (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX three senses of imputation (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. X Rom.5.13 open tip (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
- Copy-text Locked Latin, Man. Post. Cap. IX omit/death dilemma (Saumur 1661) (Latin)
This is an AI-assisted study translation. Source fidelity and completeness have not been independently certified. Open Latin on each section (or the Latin source witness link) for the source text. This is not a complete critical edition.